Karelini ??

[Mike Barth]

No responses to my Wamm thread so thought I would post here.
Thoughts on this Shrike , karelini ??

[MarkS]

I'd be calling this a Red-back x Turk hybrid myself, Mike. Karelini can vary in tone, but I'd expect paler, greyer upperparts and crown, and cleaner underparts.

[Mike Barth]

Cheers Mark and Andrew ! Hybrid it is then

[Oscar]

Whoa, not so fast. I am not convinced we can be sure that this is a hybrid and not karelini. For the former, I would prefer to see some stronger RB influence, eg some definite blackening (not mere darkening) on the tail (as eg here), plus, for example, a definite bay or ruddy cast on the back. A tinge of colour on the underside, especially creamy flanks, is not unusual on (otherwise) classic Turkestans, karelini or not. However, I concede the apparently limited white flash at the p bases seems odd for a male pure male Turkestan. I am not saying this is definitely karelini, just that I feel we cannot say either way for sure on the basis of these images. But you don't have to listen to me, Mike...!

OSCAR

[Mike Barth]

Thanks Oscar ! The mystery deepens

[simonpeterlloyd]

The mystery deepens

That's shrikes for ya.

[Ruan]

Hi Mike, this shrike looks very similar to the one I posted on my query entitled "Sqaucco Heron and Isabelline Shrike OR Indian Pond heron and Turkestan Shrike"
I haven't had any replies to that yet so not sure? would appreciate if you could take a look at the pics I posted there and let me know your thoughts. I spotted it at Warson Lakes. Perhaps I'm completely off the mark here but no harm in asking...cheers Ruan

[andrew]

How about this one? Wamm 6th April.

[Mike Barth]

Hi Ruan

Sorry for the delay , in Scotland at the moment. Not good on variants, hybrids etc.... I just out mine down to a Turkestan / red back shrike hybrid.

[JanJ]

Hi all.

I took the liberty putting Mike´s shrike on Surfbirds Forum and here´s what Brian suggested - which can be be agreed upon.

http://www.surfbirds.com/forum/showt...from-UAE-forum

JanJ